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What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/19/2008 4:43:49 PM
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nicole6598
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I was just wodnering what the pastors and or people of congregations think the pastors role? And what scripture they would use to back this up.
My pastor spoke about it recently and used Exodus 18:17-23 where Moses' father in law was talking to him. I just found it odd that he would use that...
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/19/2008 6:17:33 PM
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rcjames
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I believe this passage explains it very well;
(Eph 4:11,12) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
I think from the wordin in vs. 11 that Pastor/Teacher is one role.
That Passage goes on to expand on what the Pastor is for;
'
(Eph 4:13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
(Eph 4:14) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
(Eph 4:15) But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
The Pastor's duty is to teach, exhort, rebuke, and care for the flock with all being done to acheive the untimate goal of growing the attendee unto the stature of Christ.
(2Ti 4:2) Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/19/2008 6:51:53 PM
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nicole6598
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Thanks RC I was hoping you would answer, I like hearing your opinion 
I think some pastors tend to think they are the chief, their board or elders and their puppets. That's what I get from that Exodus verse anyway, that the pastor just orchestrates other people to do the sheparding etc while they just teach. I think it something only recent though. My FIL who is a pastor in the same denomination does alot of things that some younger pastors wouldn't.
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/19/2008 8:42:33 PM
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nicole6598
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I also wonder what you do when alot on the congregation don't agree with what the pastor has said is "his role"...
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/19/2008 9:42:56 PM
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zoebob
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Our pastor fills many roles/duties
1. main preacher/teacher. he preaches most weeks and probably teaches SS 3/4 of the year (maybe all 4 quarters to some capacity)
2. Spends hours in prayer for the congregation.
3. shepherding/visiting/caring for the people of the congregation.
4. Similar and probably part of #3 is that he is the main liason between the session and member. IOW: if someone is having an issue in their lives he is usually the one they approach first and most readily keep up to date, etc and he in turn keeps the session up to date. (Of course the members of the session will also seek to help and get updates on their own. However, they all have other full time jobs so aren't as available as pastor)
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/19/2008 10:17:05 PM
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nicole6598
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So zoe would your pastor counsel as well? My pastor is divorced and re married, he is meant to be friends with us as he says, he knows of difficulties we have yet has done nothing to offer us counsel or anything. We have no counselling ministiries in our church. There were 2 women fighting in our church for months, and in the school at our church yet he didn't feel that he needed to step in and help reconcile them when they had gone to him to ask for help...
My pastor said a pastor is not "there to do home visits, hospital ministry, be chummy chummy with everyone" etc etc. My husband is a board member yet my pastor wouldn't have the foggiest idea what my husband believed about things, if he prayed, if he read his bible etc etc. Its all very hard...
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/20/2008 7:46:53 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nicole6598
I think some pastors tend to think they are the chief, their board or elders and their puppets. That's what I get from that Exodus verse anyway, that the pastor just orchestrates other people to do the sheparding etc while they just teach. I think it something only recent though. My FIL who is a pastor in the same denomination does alot of things that some younger pastors wouldn't.
As for me personally, I do whatever is necessary to grow the folks that come to the Church. Theat includes activities form counselling, to teaching, to prayer, to mowing the lawn; whatever is necessary to serve my congregation by words and action.
In the past few decades there has been a drift in Christiandom towards letting the Church (Pastor and other leadership) do all the ministry. Many folks just seem think that they are only called to put a few bucks in the offering plate and that covers their reponsibility. This is just not the case; as in the passage from EPh. 4 speaks to the congregants (all Chrisitans) being grown to do "The work of the ministry".
When a Christian runs across a lost person who seems to be seeking; do not call the Church to send someone to spread the Gospel; the individual should share the Gospel, lead the person to Christ, and bring the new Believer to Church to be watered and grown.
We in Churchdom seem to have devolved into the Church being the only place that should tell someone about Christ; that is wrong, wrong, wrong. Church by definition is a gathering of Saints (saved folks) who are being grown into the Stature of Christ.
I see one of the problems with the 'Modern" Church is that it is a gathering of lost folks who cannot be grown, but need the Gospel. So Pastors teach salvation and strained beans and never get around to teaching the 'Meat of the Word". The Apostle Paul addressed this many times, but I guess we have not learned it as of yet.
The Pastor's "Goal" should be to grow the Chrisitans under his care unto the stature of Christ, now his "Role" is whatever is necessary to accomplish this.
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/20/2008 7:48:46 AM
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zoebob
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HE does some basic counseling. However, there is a man who is a professional christian counselor and an ordained minister in the area that they refer people to for anything beyond basic stuff. THe church will pay him though if it's an issue.
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/20/2008 8:16:34 AM
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ffbruce
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I'm just a bit surprised by the growing trend of younger pastors who simply do call on people - in the hospitals, their homes, etc. The church exists to help people connect to God and to each other. Why would we simply write off half of that purpose?
It is also a true that, in the mega-church model, the pastor takes on the role of CEO and/or Company Manager. It's very much a business model where people are more of a commodity than souls. It's a model I prefer to stay a LONG ways away from.
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/20/2008 9:40:09 AM
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zoebob
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I want to clarify that my pastor will counsel in spiritual issues. However, things like relationship/spousal issues is where he will refer to the other man.
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/20/2008 10:26:43 AM
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ffbruce
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
I want to clarify that my pastor will counsel in spiritual issues. However, things like relationship/spousal issues is where he will refer to the other man.
Right - and that makes sense. The pastor is often/usually the "front line" in such matters.
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/20/2008 10:33:33 AM
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buckifn
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quote:
My pastor said a pastor is not "there to do home visits, hospital ministry, be chummy chummy with everyone" etc etc. My husband is a board member yet my pastor wouldn't have the foggiest idea what my husband believed about things, if he prayed, if he read his bible etc etc. Its all very hard...
Then your pastor is a man not living according to God's Word.
God's Word CLEARLY tells us (pastor's included) in Matthew 25 that we are to visit the sick, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit those in prison.... ALL things Jesus told us to do and said we are going to be held accountable for in judgment.
An elder at your church neeeds to take this Scripture to the pastor and teach him what God requires.
He is also in error not to know your husband if he is an elder at the church. The Bible clearly tells us to KNOW those who labor among you....
I would avoid a church that does not require accountability from it's leaders...esp. when it comes to prayer and reading/teaching/knowing the Bible.
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/20/2008 10:45:45 AM
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ffbruce
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
quote:
My pastor said a pastor is not "there to do home visits, hospital ministry, be chummy chummy with everyone" etc etc. My husband is a board member yet my pastor wouldn't have the foggiest idea what my husband believed about things, if he prayed, if he read his bible etc etc. Its all very hard...
Then your pastor is a man not living according to God's Word.
God's Word CLEARLY tells us (pastor's included) in Matthew 25 that we are to visit the sick, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit those in prison.... ALL things Jesus told us to do and said we are going to be held accountable for in judgment.
An elder at your church neeeds to take this Scripture to the pastor and teach him what God requires.
He is also in error not to know your husband if he is an elder at the church. The Bible clearly tells us to KNOW those who labor among you....
I would avoid a church that does not require accountability from it's leaders...esp. when it comes to prayer and reading/teaching/knowing the Bible.
I think part of this is the unspoken "debate" as to whether the church is a business, or a family.
And while it's never openly admitted, many churches - especially some of the seeker-driven mega-churches - are a business.
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/20/2008 1:27:38 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
I want to clarify that my pastor will counsel in spiritual issues. However, things like relationship/spousal issues is where he will refer to the other man.
Zoebob, I do not wish to diss your pastor, but is not how we live our lives and or relationship totally dependent on our Spiritual condition.
To consider otherwise is to say that phychology trumps the work of the Holy Spiri in a true Christiant. The Scriptures define absollutely how we are to live our lives; and the recipe for fixing those things that do not seem corrrect.
If a Pastor is not sufficiently versed in or does not have the faith to believe in Scripture, Then he does not need to be a Pastor.
Christ said;
[b](Luk 4:18,`9) The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
toss this in with;
(Gal 5:22,23) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
and blend all this with;
(Mat 22:37-40) Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
And you have all the answers to all the relationalship problems that are possible; and all these fall under the purview of the Pastor's duty.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/20/2008 2:26:12 PM
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zoebob
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I knew someone would bring that up. Yes, all things in our life are goverened by scripture. However, he is not specifically trained in human behavior type issues. I am trying to think of a good example. OK here's one: someone who has been sexually abused as a child. Pastor can help them with understanding what their response should be towards their abuser but the counselor can offer specific actions/responses/etc.
IOW: the counselor helps deal specifc behavioral type things FROM A CHRISTIAN/BIBLICAL VIEWPOINT.
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/20/2008 3:48:59 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
I knew someone would bring that up. Yes, all things in our life are goverened by scripture. However, he is not specifically trained in human behavior type issues. I am trying to think of a good example. OK here's one: someone who has been sexually abused as a child. Pastor can help them with understanding what their response should be towards their abuser but the counselor can offer specific actions/responses/etc.
IOW: the counselor helps deal specifc behavioral type things FROM A CHRISTIAN/BIBLICAL VIEWPOINT.
Not to be dilitary, but if he is knowledgable of,Scripture has faith in Scripture, and is called to be a Pasor; he is capable to minister in all areas;
As per your example; how about;
(2Co 5:17) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
And
(Php 3:13,14) Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Or tje ever wpmderfi;'
(Luk 4:18,19) The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Properly taught with humility and sincerity those passages will fix about any problem.
Psychology (Even Bible based paychology; whatever that is?) only helps a person to live with the history they have; Christ gets us past that history.
If your Pastor cannot help folks do that, then he needs to look for other employment.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/20/2008 4:43:09 PM
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nicole6598
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Rc have you got a funny keyboard? LOL some of your words are coming out weird!
I would agree about the mega church thing. My pastor comes from a looooonnnggggg line of well known pastors in this country, all of whom are "big wigs" and have the big fancy churches and he is trying to turn our little country church into one of them. Its what I see happening in this denomination.
so what do you do if even those who are above are pushing this type of thing anyway and teaching that isn't necessarily right? There are 2 board members (not my husband) who are having trouble with some things yet they arent saying something. and the board was hand picked by the pastor, the board aren't above him, he gets final say in most things...
one faithful woman of our church who has been there for years and years left last week, she couldnt' handle the wrong teaching and attitude anymore. Its very sad. There are only about 4 other churches in this town and I would say they are all in the same boat, not good enough. I couldn't leave until my husband was ready anyway it would cause too much friction in an already rocky marriage and my FIL is a pastor in the same denomination..
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/20/2008 4:49:30 PM
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ffbruce
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nicole6598
Rc have you got a funny keyboard? LOL some of your words are coming out weird!
I would agree about the mega church thing. My pastor comes from a looooonnnggggg line of well known pastors in this country, all of whom are "big wigs" and have the big fancy churches and he is trying to turn our little country church into one of them. Its what I see happening in this denomination.
so what do you do if even those who are above are pushing this type of thing anyway and teaching that isn't necessarily right? There are 2 board members (not my husband) who are having trouble with some things yet they arent saying something. and the board was hand picked by the pastor, the board aren't above him, he gets final say in most things...
one faithful woman of our church who has been there for years and years left last week, she couldnt' handle the wrong teaching and attitude anymore. Its very sad. There are only about 4 other churches in this town and I would say they are all in the same boat, not good enough. I couldn't leave until my husband was ready anyway it would cause too much friction in an already rocky marriage and my FIL is a pastor in the same denomination..
This, unfortunately, is typical of a church that decides to go this direction. And it's dangerous.
- The board is hand-picked by the pastor. Very dangerous.
- There is an obsession with turning a small-town church into a suburban mega-church. Very unlikely.
- There is a lack of concern over people, who might disagree, simply leaving. Very sad.
Again, the church is NOT a business. The pastor is NOT a CEO.
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/20/2008 5:06:21 PM
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nicole6598
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Yes I agree, but that's how alot of churches are running these days. The board are meant to be voted in after the AGM but we are yet to have one.
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/20/2008 6:17:08 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nicole6598
Rc have you got a funny keyboard? LOL some of your words are coming out weird!
I readily plead guilty to being keyboard challenged.
And I have a new keyboard with a lot of the keys like shift, enter, caps lock, etc in different palces than I was used to, but mainly I am just challenged when it come to the keyboard.
Thanks
RC
< Message edited by rcjames -- 10/20/2008 6:24:16 PM >
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/21/2008 5:07:48 PM
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rtribe
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I agree. The pastor is not a CEO. However while the church is not a business, it must conduct business.
My feeling on a pastor's role in the church, grow the seeds.....
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/21/2008 5:45:09 PM
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nicole6598
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he said its the way things are being run now... I don't know what the Board are meant to do either.
What is the Boards function? Are they meant to have a say in the spiritual sort of side of things too?
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/21/2008 5:47:09 PM
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kernsfamily
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rtribe
I agree. The pastor is not a CEO. However while the church is not a business, it must conduct business.
My feeling on a pastor's role in the church, grow the seeds.....
isn't that a major part of a CEO position.....to put the right people where they need to be within the church, so those seeds can be effectively "sown" and "grown" and cultivated?
A good CEO realizes that he/she can't do EVERYTHING...( in this sense, it's the bookkeeping, ministries, facilities, secretarial, etc..etc...)....what a good CEO does is put people capable of running those functions in place, and assures that a large number of people are enabled to go out and "take care of business", INDEPENDENT of the "CEO"......while providing the leadership necessary to keep it all running, and keep everyone "on the same page"....
If a good pastor isn't a CEO, then I don't know who is. Perhaps you don't want to call the position a "CEO", but, in a sense, it the very thing the CEO of my company (the guy whose office is 6 offices down the hall from me) does every day....
perhaps not ALL "job functions" are exactly the same...but, the positions are VERY VERY similar....
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Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/21/2008 5:53:54 PM
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buckifn
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A Pastor is called of God and NOT man..that makes him much more than a CEO. However, we all are called to be His disciples and that calling is also higher than any man can give.
Those mega churches reminds me of those people who harvest organs..not because they care about the patient, but because of greed.
It's part of what Jesus said would grow together...both the wheat and the tares.
I fully believe there will be A LOT of leaders and teachers in Hell for what they did and did not do.
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/21/2008 5:58:36 PM
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kernsfamily
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quote:
Those mega churches reminds me of those people who harvest organs..not because they care about the patient, but because of greed.
don't get me started on what YOU may THINK about mega-churches.......you haven't been to them ALL, obviously....(cause you haven't been to mine, obviously)...
i could say the same thing about a multitude of small churches....but, size of the church doesn't matter...(though, a pastor's role within the church does vary, from church to church, usually depending on the size of the congregation)
Regardless...
So, a pastor is called of God and not Man...ok, there's one difference.
but, the roles are SIMILAR....
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Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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