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RE: Questions about 9/11 - 2/4/2010 5:14:04 PM
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tsnody2001
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From: Terre Haute, IN
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Thank you, Eutychus, for the links. I will sift through them and respond tot hem later.
_____________________________
Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: Questions about 9/11 - 2/4/2010 5:24:18 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tsnody2001
quote:
That would then mean they might be distorting and omitting evidence that might challenge their conclusion.
You don't think the other side of the debate is capable of doing the same thing?
My point was that it's easy for anyone to do. I'll get to the Pentagon mystery missile later.
_____________________________
"It's an effort to elevate one's language to sound more academic, more scholarly," Lucas said. "I don't think I'd give her an A for anything."- Brad Lucas of TCU on Palin's refudiate gaffe
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RE: Questions about 9/11 - 2/4/2010 5:35:12 PM
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cow451
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Euty's link has a good deal of info on the Pentagon. I would add that the only alternative explanation would involve a missile instead of a plane. I can see where, based on the video and pictures that one might conclude it doesn't look like a plane hit the building.
OK, let's say it was a missile (for sake of discussion). Then we have to have a logical explanation for what happened to the plane and passengers if it did not crash into the Pentagon. No theory with any logic has been put forward that I have seen to account for the not-the-plane scenario.
So in addressing all the available evidence, the most logical explanation is that the plane crashed into the Pentagon.
_____________________________
"It's an effort to elevate one's language to sound more academic, more scholarly," Lucas said. "I don't think I'd give her an A for anything."- Brad Lucas of TCU on Palin's refudiate gaffe
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RE: Questions about 9/11 - 2/5/2010 2:09:24 PM
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cornergas
Posts: 510
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yeah and if one still believes, in the tooth fairy, and santa claus..good, believe the fairy tale theory of the government official story...at least they should charge the owner of the twin towers and building seven for not obtaining a demolition permit before destroying the buildings!
Know the truth and it will set you free
Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy
God bless us all!
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RE: Questions about 9/11 - 2/5/2010 2:20:54 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3510
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cornergas
yeah and if one still believes, in the tooth fairy, and santa claus..good, believe the fairy tale theory of the government official story...at least they should charge the owner of the twin towers and building seven for not obtaining a demolition permit before destroying the buildings!
Know the truth and it will set you free
Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy
God bless us all!
I see you hit "paste" by accident again. Would you care to join in a discussion on the Pentagon attack?
_____________________________
"It's an effort to elevate one's language to sound more academic, more scholarly," Lucas said. "I don't think I'd give her an A for anything."- Brad Lucas of TCU on Palin's refudiate gaffe
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RE: Questions about 9/11 - 2/5/2010 4:43:01 PM
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tsnody2001
Posts: 1019
Joined: 4/29/2008
From: Terre Haute, IN
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quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: cornergas
yeah and if one still believes, in the tooth fairy, and santa claus..good, believe the fairy tale theory of the government official story...at least they should charge the owner of the twin towers and building seven for not obtaining a demolition permit before destroying the buildings!
Know the truth and it will set you free
Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy
God bless us all!
ORIGINAL: cow451
I see you hit "paste" by accident again. Would you care to join in a discussion on the Pentagon attack?
Uh, huh? Did I miss something? I think I am confused. LOL
_____________________________
Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: Questions about 9/11 - 2/5/2010 8:25:03 PM
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kingdom1111
Posts: 610
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From: I'm not sure
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quote:
Uh, huh? Did I miss something? I think I am confused. LOL
That is Cow being sarcastically funny again :)
_____________________________
God Bless,
Kingdom
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RE: Questions about 9/11 - 2/6/2010 3:24:29 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 3528
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tsnody2001
Okay. Let's start with the lack of wreckage or plane debris at the site of the Pentagon. How do you explain that?
You don't explain it. It's a lie.
quote:
I do not start with the premise that the official start cannot be true. I believed the official story for six years because I had not looked at any of the evidence, but only believed what those "who know better" have told us was the truth. Once I was presented with some of the evidence, I began to ask questions, which led me to seek out more evidence, which led to even more questions, which has led me to no longer believe the official story.
Let me ask you something: how good do you think this new evidence really is? (the evidence that cause you to doubt the original story)
Your claim that there's no evidence for a plane crash at the Pentagon is one I've heard many times, but as has been pointed out, it's patently false. Whomever is running around making these claims has obviously not done the research you seem to think they have.
How accurate are they about things like the nanothermite claims?
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Questions about 9/11 - 2/6/2010 7:26:51 AM
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brujaq
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tsnody2001 .. I question the official report as well and I appreciate your allways civil and courteous tone in all your posts , thanx ...
Iluvatar .. do you think more revealing survelance video exists of the plane that hit the pentegon ?
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RE: Questions about 9/11 - 2/6/2010 12:46:40 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 3528
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: brujaq
tsnody2001 .. I question the official report as well and I appreciate your allways civil and courteous tone in all your posts , thanx ...
Iluvatar .. do you think more revealing survelance video exists of the plane that hit the pentegon ?
More revealing than this? Not that I'm aware of (but then, I haven't followed this too closely) - I imagine if there were, it would have come out by now.
We have a missing plane, phone calls from people aboard that missing plane saying it was hijacked, debris from that missing plane at the pentagon crash site, and a video of <something> hitting the pentagon. I don't see where all this supposed mystery is.
I don't get why the conspiracy theorists seem to think that an inside job would have involved a demolition. Demolitions take a lot of time, labor, and material. To think that somebody secretly planted thermite and demolition charges throughout the WTC w/o anybody noticing then crashed planes into the building as cover? That's beyond ludicrous.
If you want an inside job conspiracy theory, why not imagine that the CIA (or some special CIA-ish task force) drummed up a couple dozen disaffected Arabs and convinced them to launch an attack against the US? Heck, we've already done that against other countries. Replace Bin Laden w/ the CIA and you're done.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Questions about 9/11 - 2/6/2010 12:59:32 PM
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tsnody2001
Posts: 1019
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From: Terre Haute, IN
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iluvatar,
Would you mind pointing me to some solid evidence of plane wreckage at the grounds of the Pentagon? I mean, since those who claim that they were physically there and saw no wreckage (of a plane, that is), and you've "obviously done [your] research"... it should be pretty easy for you. Right?
Respectfully, I am not going to jump around from topic to topic so that nothing gets thoroughly discussed. So I won't be discussing nanothermite until you show me how those who obviously haven't done any research are wrong.
Thank you.
_____________________________
Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: Questions about 9/11 - 2/6/2010 2:00:44 PM
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brujaq
Posts: 46
Joined: 4/29/2007
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Well I,ve worked a lot of heavy consruction and I know how hard it is to cut and heat heavy beams with acetelyne and oxygen , you can cut it easy with a cutting torch tip , but when you use a rose bud {heating tip }
to try to melt a beam thats almost impossible and the with diesel instead of acetelyne triple that and then with inadaquite oxygen ? Now on the other hand I could clamp on a crucible around a beam with powder from a cad weld and run it up to over 1600 in less than 1 min I,m just guessing the time and remember just my op ... When I used to cadweld big18 rebar the metal would ignite and began to pour quick ... we have the tech so no I don,t think its as ludicris as planes and their fuel breaking physics laws ..
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RE: Questions about 9/11 - 2/7/2010 7:48:16 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 3528
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tsnody2001
iluvatar,
Would you mind pointing me to some solid evidence of plane wreckage at the grounds of the Pentagon? I mean, since those who claim that they were physically there and saw no wreckage (of a plane, that is), and you've "obviously done [your] research"... it should be pretty easy for you. Right?
http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics/Pentagon_debris
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=6#flight77debris
There are photos of the debris at the pentagon and the NTSB recovered the black boxes.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Questions about 9/11 - 2/23/2010 12:44:19 AM
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cornergas
Posts: 510
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Wow a lot of debris..no engines..a couple of pieces of scrap metal..not visible in one frame and show up in the next..hmmm how convenient..and good old Donald Rumsfeld out there scouring for metal..good photo op but who was minding the store?? Oh I forgot no one was all day..so why start now!..and Oh yes a twenty foot diameter hole through 5 concrete reinforced walls...ooh yeah an air craft will do that alright...No way!
No marks on outside of building from wings, engines no luggage, no seats, nothing to identify an airplane...so I guess the conclusion we can come to..it was not an airplane...the government is scamming us again!!
Know the truth and it will set you free
Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy
God bless us all!
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RE: Questions about 9/11 - 2/23/2010 10:28:35 AM
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cow451
Posts: 3510
Joined: 5/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cornergas
Wow a lot of debris..no engines..a couple of pieces of scrap metal..not visible in one frame and show up in the next..hmmm how convenient..and good old Donald Rumsfeld out there scouring for metal..good photo op but who was minding the store?? Oh I forgot no one was all day..so why start now!..and Oh yes a twenty foot diameter hole through 5 concrete reinforced walls...ooh yeah an air craft will do that alright...No way!
No marks on outside of building from wings, engines no luggage, no seats, nothing to identify an airplane...so I guess the conclusion we can come to..it was not an airplane...the government is scamming us again!!
Know the truth and it will set you free
Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy
God bless us all!
So, what you're telling us is that a Cruise missile (with a flight data recorder exactly like the one that would have been on Flight 77) struck the Pentagon and the airliner and passengers on Flight 77 went ..... now where did they go?
The flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder were both found at the Pentagon, however the cockpit voice recorder was too badly damaged, with nothing recovered from it. On the other hand, the NTSB was able to retrieve data from the flight data recorder.
_____________________________
"It's an effort to elevate one's language to sound more academic, more scholarly," Lucas said. "I don't think I'd give her an A for anything."- Brad Lucas of TCU on Palin's refudiate gaffe
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RE: Questions about 9/11 - 2/23/2010 10:42:36 AM
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Sophie11
Posts: 628
Joined: 1/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
So, what you're telling us is that a Cruise missile (with a flight data recorder exactly like the one that would have been on Flight 77) struck the Pentagon and the airliner and passengers on Flight 77 went ..... now where did they go?
The government is keeping them in a secret underground bunker a few miles outside of area 51. They perform random experiments on them to see if they can create a human-alien hybrid from the remains they found in the UFO that they shot down and hid away in the 90's. I'm telling you, that's the truth.
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RE: Questions about 9/11 - 2/23/2010 12:32:28 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3510
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sophie11
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
So, what you're telling us is that a Cruise missile (with a flight data recorder exactly like the one that would have been on Flight 77) struck the Pentagon and the airliner and passengers on Flight 77 went ..... now where did they go?
The government is keeping them in a secret underground bunker a few miles outside of area 51. They perform random experiments on them to see if they can create a human-alien hybrid from the remains they found in the UFO that they shot down and hid away in the 90's. I'm telling you, that's the truth.
Finally! An explanation! But I thought Mossad (aka "the Jews") did it? Or did they just do the Towers?
_____________________________
"It's an effort to elevate one's language to sound more academic, more scholarly," Lucas said. "I don't think I'd give her an A for anything."- Brad Lucas of TCU on Palin's refudiate gaffe
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RE: Questions about 9/11 - 2/23/2010 12:44:53 PM
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Sophie11
Posts: 628
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
Finally! An explanation! But I thought Mossad (aka "the Jews") did it? Or did they just do the Towers?
No, it wasn't the Mossad it was the US government.
The Jews were busy working on creating barcodes that will control the population, thereby furthering them in their goal of world domination.
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RE: Questions about 9/11 - 2/23/2010 1:52:54 PM
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cornergas
Posts: 510
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Oh Cow you seem to want to ignore the questions I raise in my post, but you do admit it is a cruise missile good, you are overcoming your denial..thats a first step...now tell me..why no surface to air missiles were fired at the incoming object to the pentagon? It is the most heavy guarded building on the planet..where were the missiles? Andrews is closeby yet not jet interceptors came to check out what was happening until after the event..what were they doing? Who turned off the dozens of cameras on the pentagon? No pictures available of what struck this building.how convenient, don't yah think?
Know the truth and it will set you free
Worship the Son of God-not the sun god
Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy!
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RE: Questions about 9/11 - 2/23/2010 2:19:25 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3510
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cornergas
Oh Cow you seem to want to ignore the questions I raise in my post, but you do admit it is a cruise missile good, you are overcoming your denial..thats a first step...now tell me..why no surface to air missiles were fired at the incoming object to the pentagon? It is the most heavy guarded building on the planet..where were the missiles? Andrews is closeby yet not jet interceptors came to check out what was happening until after the event..what were they doing? Who turned off the dozens of cameras on the pentagon? No pictures available of what struck this building.how convenient, don't yah think?
Know the truth and it will set you free
Worship the Son of God-not the sun god
Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy!
Your "evidence" is simply that you don't accept the eyewitness accounts and photographic evidence.
Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"
Give me a break!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For the sake of argument, let's say it was a missile. What happened to the airliner and the passengers?
_____________________________
"It's an effort to elevate one's language to sound more academic, more scholarly," Lucas said. "I don't think I'd give her an A for anything."- Brad Lucas of TCU on Palin's refudiate gaffe
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RE: Questions about 9/11 - 2/24/2010 10:11:07 PM
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cornergas
Posts: 510
Joined: 7/28/2009
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Your blast expert is obviously working for the government and is not credible, as his observations do not line up with fact..you need some objective sources..and I reiterate there is no evidence of plane whatsoever!..You ignore my questions..why were all the cameras turned off? Why were the rooftop missiles no fired? Why were the jet interceptors not sent up to shoot it down? You ask where is the plane then...good question..that is why we need the government to do a true, comprehensive investigation to reveal where did the plane and passengers go..it sure was not into the Pentagon we know that much..it is the government's duty to everyone to come clean on this and start answering the questions and it they do not have the answers..get them..is that too much to ask?
Know the truth and it will set you free
Worship the Son of God and not the sun god
Remember to keep the Sabbath Holy!
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RE: Questions about 9/11 - 2/24/2010 10:22:46 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 3528
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cornergas
Why were the rooftop missiles no fired?
What rooftop missiles?
quote:
Why were the jet interceptors not sent up to shoot it down?
Because we weren't ready for it.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Questions about 9/11 - 2/24/2010 10:27:44 PM
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cornergas
Posts: 510
Joined: 7/28/2009
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The Pentagon is the most heavily protected building on the planet, and Washington around the White House, Congress and the Pentagon the most guarded airspace..do the research the Pentagon has hundreds of roof mounted missiles ready to fire at any aircraft or missile that is headed toward it. The interceptor fighters at Andrews and elsewhere are always on alert for such an incidence as was unfolding, but for some reason never responded...the entire battery of cameras around the Pentagon were turned off..why?
Know the truth and it will set you free
Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy
God bless us all!
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RE: Questions about 9/11 - 2/25/2010 9:21:48 AM
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cow451
Posts: 3510
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cornergas
The Pentagon is the most heavily protected building on the planet, and Washington around the White House, Congress and the Pentagon the most guarded airspace..do the research the Pentagon has hundreds of roof mounted missiles ready to fire at any aircraft or missile that is headed toward it. The interceptor fighters at Andrews and elsewhere are always on alert for such an incidence as was unfolding, but for some reason never responded...the entire battery of cameras around the Pentagon were turned off..why?
Know the truth and it will set you free
Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy
God bless us all!
There ain't no missiles on the Pentagon.
In this paper I have shown the origin of the conspiracy theorists claims regarding anti-aircraft defenses at the Pentagon. I have shown how they were initially made without sources or substantiation, arguing that it was “something everyone knows”. I have also shown that their claims are not even internally consistent, and change from person to person, even to the point of claiming that anti-aircraft guns, which don’t even exist in the land forces of the US military, are emplaced there. Furthermore I have pointed out that there is a large amount of evidence showing that there were no air defenses at the Pentagon, including statements by knowledgeable government officials and reliable media sources. And lastly, I have shown that belated attempts to justify these claims are based largely on hearsay, and inconsistent, vague, and unsubstantiated claims.
Given the loose standard for sources and the immediate embracing of convenient rumors in the 9/11 conspiracy theory community, I hold no fantasies that this will be the end of these claims, but I hope that at least some people, upon reading this paper, will demand more from those making these claims in the future.
_____________________________
"It's an effort to elevate one's language to sound more academic, more scholarly," Lucas said. "I don't think I'd give her an A for anything."- Brad Lucas of TCU on Palin's refudiate gaffe
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RE: Questions about 9/11 - 3/1/2010 1:16:54 PM
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cornergas
Posts: 510
Joined: 7/28/2009
Status: offline
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The Pentagon was so poorly protected it is a shame...those tricky attackers, are so more intelligent than U.S. military minds, and defence systems. they circumvented all the best American has to offer in their trillion dollars defense..and just waltzed right in and seized commercial airplanes and flew them into three our of four targets..no problem for those Al Queida or Taliban or whatever...these people are smart...the US is no match for these people...especially that skinny boogey man living in the cave..someplace in Afghanistan..now there is someone who can plan, direct, and ensure those attacks on America went like clockwork..wow..America should hire him..he would be a very valuable asset..oh wait a minute he apparently is already a CIA asset for many years..well hot doggey..who would have thunk it?
Know the truth and it will set you free
Worship the Son of God-not the sun god
Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy!
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