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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/5/2010 12:43:19 AM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
Unless Christians understand that there is a distinction between soul and spirit, they will not make the spirit and spiritual things the highest priority. I disagree. I think the fact that God commanded something is a far more important reason than "it feeds our spirit" or "it starves our soul." The fact that our good deeds are pleasing to God and work to draw others to Christ is plenty for the Christian to be motivated to make "spiritual things" their highest priority. If they need to accept some doctrine about the nature of humanity (which respected Christian leaders have legitimate disagreements about) before they can put God's work first, then the Holy Spirit isn't doing his job.
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/5/2010 1:03:32 AM
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Ezra
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quote:
I think the fact that God commanded something is a far more important reason than "it feeds our spirit" or "it starves our soul." No one has suggested that God commanding something is less important, or that the only way to look at the Christian's spiritual life is from the perspective of feeding or nourishing our spirits. However, understanding the difference between the soul and the spirit should give Christians a better insight into themselves, since God has revealed this distinction in His Word (Heb 4:12). At the very least, we need to be aware that we are not simply body and soul (1 Thess 5:23). And that there is food for the soul and spirit just as much as there is for the body (Mt.4:4). And that the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit because they are foolishness to him (1 Cor. 2:14) and are only spiritually discerned.
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/5/2010 9:00:29 AM
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drmark
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quote:
Yet as we know from daily experience as well as from Scripture "the flesh" has not been eradicated. So to further clarify, "the flesh" or "old man" within your soul is still there (no matter how much you may deny this) and even Paul had to deal with his "old man". See Romans 7:14-25 for further clarification. Once again, Ezra, you must speak for yourself. I'm happy to discuss eradication of the carnal nature on the appropriate thread, not this one! quote:
We will not be "entirely sanctified" until we are glorified, therefore John says to us, "If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves". There is no way you can make grandiose satements about an experience which you've never had... Meet you on a different thread if you wish!
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/12/2010 12:41:18 AM
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Saved34
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quote:
There is no way you can make grandiose satements about an experience which you've never had... Meet you on a different thread if you wish! He's right, it is only great self deception to even believe that for one second. Walking in the light would show you just how ugly self is. Upon seeing the Glorified Christ, Daniel said: Dan 10:8 Therefore I was left alone, and saw this great vision, and there remained no strength in me: for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength. Isaiah said : Isa 6:5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts. That Holy Light of fellowship with God will reveal your true self. Jesus said if I wash thee not, if I do not wash your feet, you have no part or fellowship with me. You (not you personally but any man)are in essence walking in darkness and cannot see. If you decieve yourself by saying you live completely sinless in word, thought, or deed, you do not have the truth.
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/12/2010 1:15:23 AM
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didymus101
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Saved34, I think you did not mean to agree with whom you agreed. Ezra said what you said and drmark, whom you quote, disagreed. Can you follow this? LOL
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/12/2010 1:20:39 AM
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Saved34
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quote:
ORIGINAL: didymus101 Saved34, I think you did not mean to agree with whom you agreed. Ezra said what you said and drmark, whom you quote, disagreed. Can you follow this? LOL Lol, I'm in full agreement with Ezra.
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/12/2010 8:19:26 AM
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drmark
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quote:
If you decieve yourself by saying you live completely sinless in word, thought, or deed, you do not have the truth. Saved, what do the phrases "cleansed from all sin" and "purified from all unrighteousness" mean to you in the context of 1 John 1:7 and 9? Do you believe we are forgiven of all our sins at conversion? Is it possible for a Christian to not sin? I believe the biblically correct answers to these questions will show you how some Christians are actually living "completely sinless in word, thought, and deed" at this very moment!
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/12/2010 8:43:26 AM
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Saved34
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark quote:
If you decieve yourself by saying you live completely sinless in word, thought, or deed, you do not have the truth. Saved, what do the phrases "cleansed from all sin" and "purified from all unrighteousness" mean to you in the context of 1 John 1:7 and 9? Do you believe we are forgiven of all our sins at conversion? Is it possible for a Christian to not sin? I believe the biblically correct answers to these questions will show you how some Christians are actually living "completely sinless in word, thought, and deed" at this very moment! Cleanseth is in the present tense, it denotes a continuous action. The blood cleanseth us from all sin that the light reveals for light makes manifest."If we walk in the light, not hiding our transgressions but presenting them before God by confession, he is faithful and just to cleanse and forgive us for all our sins(plural). "If we say we have no sin, we lie, and are in reality, walking in darkness and do not the truth, if we say we have not even sinned we now make him who is Light a liar,for he sees all. His word is obviously not in us" All the verses must be taken in complete context vs 5 -10 are all connected. Christ is "Faithful" (trustworthy, he can be counted on every time to perform this action) and "Just" (Holy and Righteousness in totality which is why sin cannot master the believer) I'll say it's not possible to live completely free of sin in word, thought ,or deed, (for no man apart from Christ has done so)as long as we dwell in these earthly tabernacles.it is possible to walk in the light of God and have unbroken fellowship and be delivered from every sin that rears it's head in our Life. Sin absolutely cannot master a Christian and it is not the normal life of a Christian. Sin shall not have dominon or lordship over us. 1Ki 8:46 If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of the enemy, far or near;
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2Ti 2:3 Join me in suffering like a good soldier of Christ Jesus. 2Ti 2:4 No one serving in the military gets mixed up in civilian matters, for his aim is to please his commanding officer.
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/12/2010 9:40:02 AM
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didymus101
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The road gets narrower.... Over the course of decades I have seen the nature of sin constantly redefined. Concern, for example--as in to be a trouble or distress, or an uneasy state of blended interest, uncertainty, and apprehension--started out as no big deal; it was simply natural. It slowly became clearer that this was, to varying degrees, separation from God. For a time I defended my concern and did not think of it as sin, as in, "If all this were going on in your life right now you'd be concerned as well." And then I began to see how this affected the way I lived and related to others; it was worldliness. I was not being Christlike. Now I confess immediately, both to God and others, and that is living in righteousness. As Saved said, it is not that I will not sin but that I will recognize and not hide it, quickly admitting my wrong, maintaining my relationship with God and honoring his sovereignty over my life. Treating anyone with anything less than the love of Christ, for whatever reason, is sin, yet we need to mature enough to truly see and be convicted of that. Prior to that, as I did, we will think of ourselves as sinless, clicking off the Ten Commandments and seeing no offenses. A number of my posts in this forum were engaging sin, for at the time I was more concerned about the point I was making or the personal attacks against me than the person to whom I was addressing. I had a pastor say to me years ago that one idle thought was sin. It was not his point to get legalistic but simply to point out that I would never be perfect on earth, and it is only sin if I am mature enough, have been convicted, to see it. This is why we must be continually open and receptive to the guidance of the Holy Spirit and not relying on standards and keeping the law. We get fixed measures in our heads and weigh our life by them, but with spirit these measures are constantly improving and the road is getting narrower and narrower.
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/12/2010 9:48:17 AM
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benjoseph
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quote:
1Ki 8:46 If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of the enemy, far or near; I think this can also be translated "there is no man that may not sin" - meaning there is no man to whom sin is impossible. Every man is capable of sin. "ki ein adam asher lo yecheta; 'for there is no man that may not sin;' ... This is the true meaning of the phrase in various parts of the Bible, and so our translators have understood the original, for even in the thirty-first verse of this chapter, they have translated yecheta, if a man trespass; which certainly implies he might or might not do it; and in this way they have translated the same word, if a soul sin, in Lev 5:1, and Lev 6:2; 1Sa 2:25; 2Ch 6:22; and in several other places. The truth is, the Hebrew has no mood to express words in the permissive or optative way, but to express this sense it uses the future tense of the conjugation kal." - Clarke "the original Hebrew word may be read in the potential mood, thus,--There is no man who may not sin, as well as in the indicative; so both the old Latin, Junius, and Tremellius, and Vatablus have it, and the same word is so used, Ps. cxix. 11: 'Thy word have I bid in my heart, that I might not sin against thee'--in the potential mood, and not in the indicative; which being more answerable to the universal scope of the scriptures, the testimony of the truth, and the sense of almost all interpreters, doubtless ought to be so understood, and the other interpretation rejected as spurious." - Barclay
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/12/2010 9:59:17 AM
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Saved34
Posts: 867
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quote:
ORIGINAL: didymus101 The road gets narrower.... Over the course of decades I have seen the nature of sin constantly redefined. Concern, for example--as in to be a trouble or distress, or an uneasy state of blended interest, uncertainty, and apprehension--started out as no big deal; it was simply natural. It slowly became clearer that this was, to varying degrees, separation from God. For a time I defended my concern and did not think of it as sin, as in, "If all this were going on in your life right now you'd be concerned as well." And then I began to see how this affected the way I lived and related to others; it was worldliness. I was not being Christlike. Now I confess immediately, both to God and others, and that is living in righteousness. As Saved said, it is not that I will not sin but that I will recognize and not hide it, quickly admitting my wrong, maintaining my relationship with God and honoring his sovereignty over my life. Treating anyone with anything less than the love of Christ, for whatever reason, is sin, yet we need to mature enough to truly see and be convicted of that. Prior to that, as I did, we will think of ourselves as sinless, clicking off the Ten Commandments and seeing no offenses. A number of my posts in this forum were engaging sin, for at the time I was more concerned about the point I was making or the personal attacks against me than the person to whom I was addressing. I had a pastor say to me years ago that one idle thought was sin. It was not his point to get legalistic but simply to point out that I would never be perfect on earth, and it is only sin if I am mature enough, have been convicted, to see it. This is why we must be continually open and receptive to the guidance of the Holy Spirit and not relying on standards and keeping the law. We get fixed measures in our heads and weigh our life by them, but with spirit these measures are constantly improving and the road is getting narrower and narrower. I thank God for this post Didymus, I tried to be as careful as possible with how I represented God in my last post. I did not want to convey the wrong thoughts as if I am condoning sin, or speaking on a Holy and Righteous God in the wrong context. Your Post is on the money and let's me know I'm not crazy or running in vain from what I have gleaned through study of the scriptures. This is a Holy and sacred thing to talk about and I do not want to give anyone wrong information concerning our Mighty God and our savior Jesus Christ. Such a great and edifying post.
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2Ti 2:3 Join me in suffering like a good soldier of Christ Jesus. 2Ti 2:4 No one serving in the military gets mixed up in civilian matters, for his aim is to please his commanding officer.
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/12/2010 11:52:40 AM
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drmark
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quote:
Cleanseth is in the present tense, it denotes a continuous action. Thank you, Saved, for that important clarification. "Cleanses" and "purifies" (Greek katharizo) are indeed in the present, ongoing verb tense. Thus, I don't see why you cannot then accept that Christians can be free of all sin as stated in 1 John 1:7 and 9. quote:
I had a pastor say to me years ago that one idle thought was sin. Did that pastor ever think that Jesus had one "idle thought" during His 33 years on earth? Do you think that Jesus never once daydreamed, made meaningless small talk, or did anything else "idle" with his mind? Are we to outperform Jesus?
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/12/2010 12:06:47 PM
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Saved34
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quote:
Did that pastor ever think that Jesus had one "idle thought" during His 33 years on earth? Do you think that Jesus never once daydreamed, made meaningless small talk, or did anything else "idle" with his mind? Are we to outperform Jesus? Jesus was about his Father's business from the very outset of his earthly life. He was untouched by any impurity of thought, word, or deed. Though he was fully man, yet he was higher than the heavens, undefiled, harmless. Not one single time did the Son of God err in anyway. He who is God in the flesh was separate from sinners. He is the very Righteousness of God. Heb 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: Luk 2:48 And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing. Luk 2:49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
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2Ti 2:3 Join me in suffering like a good soldier of Christ Jesus. 2Ti 2:4 No one serving in the military gets mixed up in civilian matters, for his aim is to please his commanding officer.
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/12/2010 12:12:22 PM
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Saved34
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quote:
I think this can also be translated "there is no man that may not sin" - meaning there is no man to whom sin is impossible. Every man is capable of sin. Which translation has it that way? I think the text is pretty clear and straight forward. One may imagine something into the text to prove a denominational point, but it will do violence to the true meaning and go crooked from the straight line (Rightly dividing) of scripture. (Darby) If they have sinned against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and give them up to the enemy, and they have carried them away captives unto the enemy's land, far or near; (DRB) But if they sin against thee, (for there is no man who sinneth not) and thou being angry, deliver them up to their enemies, so that they be led away captives into the land of their enemies, far or near; (ESV) "If they sin against you--for there is no one who does not sin--and you are angry with them and give them to an enemy, so that they are carried away captive to the land of the enemy, far off or near, (KJV) If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of the enemy, far or near; (Brenton) If it be that they shall sin against thee, (for there is not a man who will not sin,) and thou shalt bring them and deliver them up before their enemies, and they that take them captive shall carry them to a land far or near, (MSTC) And finally, when they shall have sinned against thee -- for there is no man that sinneth not -- and thou art angry with them and hast delivered them to their enemies, that they be carried away prisoners unto the land of their enemies, whether far or near; (NAS77) "When they sin against Thee (for there is no man who does not sin) and Thou art angry with them and dost deliver them to an enemy, so that they take them away captive to the land of the enemy, far off or near;
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2Ti 2:3 Join me in suffering like a good soldier of Christ Jesus. 2Ti 2:4 No one serving in the military gets mixed up in civilian matters, for his aim is to please his commanding officer.
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/12/2010 12:34:52 PM
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benjoseph
Posts: 205
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Saved34 quote:
I think this can also be translated "there is no man that may not sin" - meaning there is no man to whom sin is impossible. Every man is capable of sin. Which translation has it that way? I think you misunderstood me. I suggested that it can be translated that way, not that it has been translated that way in a particular version of the Bible. quote:
I think the text is pretty clear and straight forward. I think it's actually more clear and straightforward translated the other way. quote:
One may imagine something into the text to prove a denominational point, but it will do violence to the true meaning and go crooked from the straight line (Rightly dividing) of scripture. Sure. We could do that. But in this case the original language allows for it to be translated the way that those commentators said. They didn't have to imagine anything into the text. quote:
(Darby) If they have sinned against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and give them up to the enemy, and they have carried them away captives unto the enemy's land, far or near; (DRB) But if they sin against thee, (for there is no man who sinneth not) and thou being angry, deliver them up to their enemies, so that they be led away captives into the land of their enemies, far or near; (ESV) "If they sin against you--for there is no one who does not sin--and you are angry with them and give them to an enemy, so that they are carried away captive to the land of the enemy, far off or near, (KJV) If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of the enemy, far or near; (Brenton) If it be that they shall sin against thee, (for there is not a man who will not sin,) and thou shalt bring them and deliver them up before their enemies, and they that take them captive shall carry them to a land far or near, (MSTC) And finally, when they shall have sinned against thee -- for there is no man that sinneth not -- and thou art angry with them and hast delivered them to their enemies, that they be carried away prisoners unto the land of their enemies, whether far or near; (NAS77) "When they sin against Thee (for there is no man who does not sin) and Thou art angry with them and dost deliver them to an enemy, so that they take them away captive to the land of the enemy, far off or near; I was also curious to see if anyone had translated it that way. However, these translations don't change the fact of the original language.
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/12/2010 12:43:56 PM
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Saved34
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quote:
I was also curious to see if anyone had translated it that way. However, these translations don't change the fact of the original language. No scholars of any kind have translated it the way you presented it. Is that William Barclay that you quoted? If so, I can understand why he would disagree with clear Bible text on this matter. (RV) If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captive unto the land of the enemy, far off or near; (Webster) If they shall sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou shalt be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives to the land of the enemy, far or near; (YLT) `When they sin against Thee (for there is not a man who sinneth not), and Thou hast been angry with them, and hast given them up before an enemy, and they have taken captive their captivity unto the land of the enemy far off or near; There have been a great many Hebrew scholars who worked on all these various translations and none of them seem to agree with your own particular translation. I can provide more versions if you'd like. (For comparison)
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2Ti 2:3 Join me in suffering like a good soldier of Christ Jesus. 2Ti 2:4 No one serving in the military gets mixed up in civilian matters, for his aim is to please his commanding officer.
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/12/2010 1:08:55 PM
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cih92
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles Personally, I'm a unichotamist (which is now officially a word) - I believe we are what we are, and can't be split into different bits. So, I'm not the best person to answer your questions. 2 Corinthians 5:8 says, "We are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord." How is it possible to be absent from our bodies if we cannot be split into different parts?
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/12/2010 1:12:00 PM
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drmark
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quote:
Not one single time did the Son of God err in anyway. He never stubbed His toe, never choked on food, never mismeasured a board, never spilled His milk, never stuttered or stammered, never... Wow, what a Jesus you have invented, Saved!
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/12/2010 2:07:42 PM
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ciglorious
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A man, in an earthly body, is made up of the following in an increasing order of greatness: Heart | Soul | Mind | Conscience. 1. The blood hubs in the heart and works out as the faith of God, 2. The water in the soul and works out as the grace of God, 3. The spirit in the mind and works the love of God, and 4. The Holy Ghost in the conscience and works out the perfection (or fullness) of God unto the kingdom of God. Correspondingly, a saint is expected to have the Blood, Water, Spirit, and Holy Ghost of God bearing record in his/her heart, soul, mind and conscience respectively. By default, whosoever is made perfect in the conscience has obtained the love, grace and faith of God. While the heart and soul render the flesh nature of man, the mind and conscience render his spiritual nature. Beyond the spiritual nature is a glorious nature that is promised us. So, for every man on earth, from/in his heart begins of a progression in the revelation/knowledge of God through his soul, mind, and that ends (perfects, completes) in his conscience. His glorification is another subject to discuss. Carnality (flesh) has to do with the heart and soul of the man; the gift of the grace of in a carnal man gives him the hope of salvation of the soul. Carnality is the absence of the Spirit/Holy Ghost of God in the heart and soul of a man. Babes in Christ, having the Blood and Water, are carnal because the Spirit is yet revealed in their minds. A carnal minded person is yet to have a revelation of the Spirit of God in his/her mind, but a Spiritual minded person has that revelation. The Word of God is like a sharp edged sword "piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit..". The Word of God can separate apart and is distributed to the heart, soul, mind, and conscience. The Word of God also separates apart and is distributed to the glorious nature. That is how come we have the Word of faith (Rom. 10:8) in the heart, the Word of Grace (Acts 14:3), sword of the Spirit which is the Word (Eph 6:17) in the mind, and Word of the Kingdom (Matt. 13:19). The Septune (seven in unity) is a more appropriate phrase to describe God.
< Message edited by ciglorious -- 3/12/2010 2:22:03 PM >
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Grace and peace from God and from the Christ unto all!
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/12/2010 2:13:58 PM
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didymus101
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drmark, you stray: the topic of that post you quote and unjustly ridicule is about sin, not accidents. Or are you suggesting these things are sin and thus Jesus was not perfect? Saved34, sorry. I meant to say how very much I appreciated your post#58 in my comments that you helped initiate. It was the last thing I did before leaving the house for work, somewhat in a rush as usual, and on the way there my oversight came to me. Your words were remarkably clear and bright, truly inspired, as others have noted.
< Message edited by didymus101 -- 3/12/2010 2:29:00 PM >
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/12/2010 2:44:21 PM
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drmark
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quote:
drmark, you stray: the topic of that post you quote and unjustly ridicule is about sin, not accidents. Or are you suggesting these things are sin and thus Jesus was not perfect? No, I'm not "straying", didymus. This thread is about our tri-unity. Incarnate Jesus was also tri-une while here on earth for 33 years. Saved34 has claimed that Jesus did not "err in any way". You have quoted a pastor who claimed that "one idle thought" is sin. I believe these claims are false because Jesus never sinned yet He was fully human living in this fallen world! Jesus likely made numerous errors and had many idle thoughts, just like every other human being who has ever lived in their physical body.
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/12/2010 3:25:18 PM
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Saved34
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark quote:
Not one single time did the Son of God err in anyway. He never stubbed His toe, never choked on food, never mismeasured a board, never spilled His milk, never stuttered or stammered, never... Wow, what a Jesus you have invented, Saved! My master was indeed perfect in every way. Who am I to tell you how to walk this Christian walk,Mark? Christ is your master, not me. God forbid that I hinder any man that has a zeal to please God, that strives for the mastery's of this Christian walk. Sometimes we can try to drive points home to others, when the point needs to be driven home to our own selves as well. Keep fighting the good fight.
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2Ti 2:3 Join me in suffering like a good soldier of Christ Jesus. 2Ti 2:4 No one serving in the military gets mixed up in civilian matters, for his aim is to please his commanding officer.
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/12/2010 4:08:16 PM
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drmark
Posts: 5594
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:
My master was indeed perfect in every way. Praise God, we can be as perfect as Him even when we stub our toe, choke on food, mismeasure a board, spill our milk, and stutter or stammer!
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: We are a tri-unity of body, soul, and spirit - 3/12/2010 4:19:52 PM
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drmark
Posts: 5594
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
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I thought I referred to it in post #71...
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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