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RE: Unity, unity wherefore art thou? - 6/29/2010 8:47:39 AM
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bolt.
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I'm unsure why post-Christian cultures would have anything to do with Christian diversity of theology and practice. Diversity of theology and practice was present in the New Testament age, and in every century after that point.
In any case... I don't think accusing Christians who disagree with you of not knowing Jesus is a very productive method of promoting harmony. It's difficult enough to at all times behave in keeping with the concrete unity we have with one another in Christ -- without having to overlook rejection and insult but fellow believers. Refraining from that sort of thing would go a long ways towards your stated goal, JohnHale.
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RE: Unity, unity wherefore art thou? - 6/29/2010 12:50:23 PM
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DaveW
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Everyone wants unity - their own way.
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RE: Unity, unity wherefore art thou? - 7/8/2010 11:18:53 PM
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JohnHale
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Oh ok. So saying nothing will go a long way and is best. I doubt you meant that Bolt, but carried to its logical conclusion Rodney King theology is the end of that line of thinking... "Can't we all just get along?"
Besides I don't recall saying anyone did not know Jesus... if I did something came out the wrong way. Or perhaps you wanted to read it that way??? I don't know.
I make no bones about how Roman Catholicism, for example, has been greatly responsible for getting Christianity way off course... but I do not say that no one knows Jesus or all is unsaved because of the flaws in Protestantism or Roman Catholicism... I believe there are people saved in them despite their flaws so long as they truly believe in the genuine Jesus and not another Jesus (2 Corinthians 11:3-4)...
This one bears printing out to actually be read...
2 Corinthians 11:3-4 (KJV)
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Dave, please. I am not advocating John Hale's way. Just the biblical way. God's Word.
Mark 7:13 (NIV)
13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”
If we are "in it" to be Baptists or Messianics or Catholics or whatever tradition you can mention (Campbellites what Church of Christ used to be called) ... then by all means go enjoy have a good time but it will mean little more than belonging to any secular club or party.
John 5:39-40 (NIV)
39 You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me,
40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
We must ask ourselves the hard question... if we found that our pet "ism" it turns out was not in line with the Lord Jesus... could we chunk that pet Church, denomination, etc. once the evidence it was not in line with Jesus passed the Biblical proving ground... could we do it?
1 Thessalonians 5:21 (NIV)
21 Test everything. Hold on to the good.
1 John 4:1 (NIV)
1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Acts 17:11 (NIV)
11 Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 (KJV)
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2 Peter 1:20-21 (KJV)
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
John 16:13 (KJV)
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Not one word about tradition / denomination / commentary written by mere men / catechism / talmud / etc. in the above.
Humanity has to get over its love affair with self will because it comes from the devil.
Matthew 16:23 (KJV)
23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Quite the contrast to:
Matthew 16:17 (KJV)
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
1 Corinthians 2 is a good read as well. But we mere mortal men and women have the tendency to bob and weave back and forth between the flesh and the Spirit. Most of the time we lean towards the flesh for the purpose of self will. Or we belong to the Church that teaches what we want to hear the way we want to hear it about the way we want God to be...
2 Timothy 4:3 (KJV)
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
Micah 6:8 (KJV)
8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
Look at Christ our example:
2 Corinthians 8:9 (KJV)
9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.
Philippians 2:5-11 (KJV)
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Romans 12:1 (KJV)
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
What about biblical Christianity has anything to do with self will? With man's ideals or traditions?
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If we are actually the truth seekers we like to think we are, then forsaking self will and falling in love with the will of God instead is the only way we become truth finders.
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RE: Unity, unity wherefore art thou? - 7/9/2010 7:57:16 AM
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bolt.
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JohnHale, you did previously quote the Jesus passage regarding, "I never knew you" while referencing others in this thread both before and after.
However, I do not consider any of the things you posted most recently to be any kind of a unity issue. As long as you realize that those who have believed in Christ -- their lives are found in Christ, the same place yours is found -- then it should be easy for you to acknowledge your fundamental unity with them, regardless of any theological errors, historical distractions, wild theories, or in-adept listening to the Spirit of Truth.
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RE: Unity, unity wherefore art thou? - 7/9/2010 6:24:43 PM
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JohnHale
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My only point in quoting Matthew 7:21-23 is to motivate stimulate rigorate (if that's a word) that we are sure that we are sure that we are sure that we believe in the genuine Jesus. I never meant it as a "if you don't believe as I believe or do as I do" then Jesus never knew you kind of a statement.
I also quoted 2 Corinthans 11:3-4 which mentions some believing in ANOTHER Jesus ANOTHER spirit ANOTHER gospel.
IF anyone believes in a counterfeit Jesus they will be on the receiving end of Matthew 7:21-23.
Don't you concur, Bolt?
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If we are actually the truth seekers we like to think we are, then forsaking self will and falling in love with the will of God instead is the only way we become truth finders.
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RE: Unity, unity wherefore art thou? - 7/9/2010 6:29:27 PM
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JohnHale
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
Everyone wants unity - their own way.
BTW great picture of your beloved and his bride!
I don't know why I assumed it was you and your Mrs. ... I guess you and I are brothers in mid life ! LOL
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If we are actually the truth seekers we like to think we are, then forsaking self will and falling in love with the will of God instead is the only way we become truth finders.
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RE: Unity, unity wherefore art thou? - 7/9/2010 7:33:39 PM
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bolt.
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quote:
IF anyone believes in a counterfeit Jesus they will be on the receiving end of Matthew 7:21-23. Don't you concur, Bolt?
I mostly concur...
However I am of the opinion that there is a possibility that someone might be capable of placing faith in the true Jesus, even if that person were under some kind of false teaching, even a heresy pertaining to Jesus.
The reason I think this is because Jesus is a person, and I think people can 'meet' Him under extenuating circumstances, such as a twisted gospel. However, I think that the Spirit of Christ would probably lead them out from under the lies, and at that point they would have to be willing to follow the truth rather than the lie.
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RE: Unity, unity wherefore art thou? - 7/9/2010 8:13:26 PM
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Elena1030
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
OK, now my inquiring mind wants to know. . .
I thought the OP just used the 'wherefore art thou' as a catchy phrase that would be recognizable to all because of O Brother and NOT really for what it meant.
So what is it? 
I took it as a spin on "Romeo, Romeo, wherefore art thou Romeo?"
(The question that inspired the thread title, makes more sense when read in the context of her entire monologue at that point.Juliet is lamenting that she and Romeo come from families that constantly feud. She's saying, "Why must you be a Montague and I a Capulet? Besides, we are who we are, no matter what name we have.")
Which leads me back to being Christians... and the unity we have because of Christ. (And that we are His, whether we ascribe to some secondary issue or not.)
Might it be somewhat disruptive to be often pointing out the disunity rather than to focus on what we do have in common?
It's certainly something to ponder. 
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RE: Unity, unity wherefore art thou? - 7/9/2010 8:27:17 PM
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Clement19
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bolt.
I don't think there is any disunity in Christ.
I consider that disunity in Christ would be metaphysically impossible. Those of us who are in Christ... are in Christ. And since we are there in Him, we are in Him together with others who are in Him, and we are one in Him.
This guy is speaking my language.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bolt.
We do not need to agree with one another to be unified... we just need to be in Christ. That unity with Him is what results in unity among believers.
Another big fat "amen" outta me.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bolt.
The unity of Christians can not be disrupted in any way -- it's simply not possible. Either a person is in Christ and thereby unified with all others in Christ, or they have not entrusted themselves to Christ and have no relationship with those who have done so.
This is what I have been telling people: either you believe or you don't. If you don't believe, you are not one of us. If you believe, you are one of us. We are christians; we believe.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bolt.It's odd that anyone would think that simple variety of understandings could overcome the power of the cross and the resurrection. Unity is not a quest. It's a plain fact of salvation.
Suddenly the world doesn't seem quite so lonely to me. Somebody out there gets it.
I love what Jesus said at the end: "It is finished." When we see what Jesus did, we don't struggle so much to DO something; we just go, "Wow, amen." By faith we can step into, and appropriate this reality. This divine, eternal reality is already there, beckoning us. And we suddenly find ourselves, mysteriously, miraculously, amazingly, incomprehensibly "one" with these other people with whom we seem to have no outward resemblance. It's pretty intense.
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RE: Unity, unity wherefore art thou? - 7/9/2010 8:28:53 PM
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Hawlak
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
I am talking about what the Bible clearly says.
And that's my point exactly. You may think the Bible clearly says A, and I may think the Bible clearly says B. We both have proof-texts and commentaries galore to back it up, and we still disagree, despite the Bible being "clear" on the matter.
Unless you're talking about the undeniable truths of Scripture (God is love, Jesus is the only way, Jesus is God, Jesus is man, grace by faith not works, the Bible is God's word, and a few others), there's no point raising a fuss. The Bible is not as clear as we would like it to be on a lot of what people have literally gotten up in arms about over the centuries. The sooner we can accept that, the sooner we can reach real unity.
I believe this to be the crux of the matter. People not reading the bible for themselves and relying on tradition to interpret for them. The fact is that old school bias has been running the show/theological schooling has been shoved into peoples minds to the extent that to have an original revelation means failed courses. nuff
Truth doesn't deserve a hearing? Tell that to The Man when you stand alone w/o the comentaries. Forget about unity. Unity is what causes problems. Unity in the truth when people can form unbiased opinions, priceless.
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19And he dealt among all the people, even among the whole multitude of Israel, as well to the women as men, to every one a cake of bread, and a good piece of flesh, and a flagon of wine. So all the people departed every one to his house.
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RE: Unity, unity wherefore art thou? - 7/9/2010 8:32:15 PM
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bolt.
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Hello Clement, my friend... do you happen to also know who else Christ is united with, and what unity we become party to when we by faith become included in Christ?
... That's the reality that really blows my mind!
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RE: Unity, unity wherefore art thou? - 7/9/2010 9:48:00 PM
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Clement19
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bolt.
Hello Clement, my friend... do you happen to also know who else Christ is united with, and what unity we become party to when we by faith become included in Christ?
... That's the reality that really blows my mind!
Jesus taught something that really made an impression on me. He said, "When you get invited to a party or a feast, don't take the seat of honor. Instead, go sit by the door. If you get called up higher, fine. Even if you don't get called up higher, you are safe."
So I began to imagine that everyone else at the feast had a higher seat than I. Even those who seemed "disconnected", while maybe I was simultaneously feeling quite unified with Christ, I realized they were a mere turn away from zooming past me in the "unification with Christ" department. So I felt that I was still being prudent, to assume that they were more connected than I.
And when I began to receive people where they were, instead of trying to manipulate them into some pre-ordained slot, they usually became more receptive, more "one" with me, than when I was trying to "convert" them. I found that God can move people a lot quicker than I can!
So I became more accepting of people. I just let them be what they were. God loves them. "This is love: that even when we didn't love God, He loved us and died for us." God doesn't love people when they behave well. God loves them anyway. And this love reaches them in Christ Jesus, through the Holy Spirit. My job is to go, "Wow! God! Amen! Hallelujah!" God does all the heavy lifting.
So I began to have some pretty heavy fellowship with people who were basically strangers to me. We started to have these really amazing, intense conversations. Instead of me trying to get them to where I was, it was a conversation, a mutual exploration of God's Christ. It's like we were already there, and we were going "Wow" together.
This, to me, is "ekklesia"; this is the gathering together of the called-out ones.
I don't know if this answers your question. But it's becoming a lot of fun again for me to be a christian, and I don't mind holding forth on this hope which is in me. Thanks for giving me the opportunity.
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RE: Unity, unity wherefore art thou? - 7/9/2010 9:51:35 PM
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Clement19
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bolt.
Hello Clement, my friend... do you happen to also know who else Christ is united with, and what unity we become party to when we by faith become included in Christ?
... That's the reality that really blows my mind!
I just re-read your question and realized you may have been alluding to "the Father". In that case, I am way over my head. I just have me and the person next to me, and we confess Jesus to one another. Somehow we, individually and collectively, become closer to the Father, I guess, is all I can really say.
I certainly can't understand it. But it is as real as anything I have ever known. To receive one another, just as God has received us in Christ Jesus.
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RE: Unity, unity wherefore art thou? - 7/10/2010 9:46:11 AM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnHale
I stand corrected.
There is a unified diversity against sound doctrine. Post Christian cultures span the globe. America which was founded on Christian principles (even amongst the disunity) is foundering because the teaching those with itching ears want to hear is the result of less and less toleration of Christian principles.
Never mind the deterioration. We want to believe what we want to believe.
Matthew 7:21-23 (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
By all means... continue...
[edited by moderator for TOS 6]
I don't think we all must agree on things. However, there are those who insist that "new and different" ideas be examined under the umbrella of diversity. Later these same individuals insist that such ideas are orthodoxy and should not be questioned. This is not a sign of disunity, but of intellectual dishonesty. This method of divid and conquer is often missed by the participants in the discussion who are focusing on the details of the arguments and not the general progression. It is not wrong for there to be disagreement on the details. However, we need to always be aware of the trend of the discussion and not allow it to become a means of replacing The Scriptures with doctrinal orthodoxy. We all have different levels of tolerance when it comes to what is and is not essential doctrine. The important thing with regard to unity is at the end of the day we acknowledge that point at which we last agreed. Then we can return the next day with the assurance that the other party agrees with us to that point and that core principles are not being undermined.
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RE: Unity, unity wherefore art thou? - 7/10/2010 9:55:18 AM
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cposey
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I would ask some people to consider this. Unity is not found in basics, principals, core theology or whatever else "higher education" has taught people. It is a plain and simple concept. Unity is found in the bond of the Holy Spirit. Scripture teaches us simply for good reasons.
Any takers as to why?
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RE: Unity, unity wherefore art thou? - 7/10/2010 10:21:36 AM
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bolt.
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quote:
Any takers as to why?
Because being a person involves more than one's brains?
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RE: Unity, unity wherefore art thou? - 7/10/2010 10:40:38 AM
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cposey
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quote:
Because being a person involves more than one's brains?
Wow, what an amazing statement.
So could the unity we are supposed to find, not be in the "faith statements" and core beliefs, but rather in the brother and sisterhood of the kingdom of God?
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RE: Unity, unity wherefore art thou? - 7/11/2010 9:21:03 PM
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JohnHale
Posts: 275
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bolt.
quote:
IF anyone believes in a counterfeit Jesus they will be on the receiving end of Matthew 7:21-23. Don't you concur, Bolt?
I mostly concur...
However I am of the opinion that there is a possibility that someone might be capable of placing faith in the true Jesus, even if that person were under some kind of false teaching, even a heresy pertaining to Jesus.
Yes. I have stated as much if not in this thread in others on this board that I believe folks in Roman Catholicism and Protestantism have relationships (therefore are saved) with the genuine Jesus despite the errors of the denominations they belong to. I'll even go one further... I believe there are people who came to faith in the true Jesus who did not follow up to insure who he is and were duped by cults. Are they saved? If once saved always saved is true then yes. Are they in error? Yes. And it is up to the Holy Spirit to sort out the mess they are in. And btw the woeful lack of public knowledge of Christian truth is the blame of the Church for being duped into divisive doctrines of man and waging wars over those humanist doctrines rather than spreading the gospel to every creature. So potential believers and even novice believers are swallowed whole by cults who are out there doing the evangelism we ought to be doing.
quote:
The reason I think this is because Jesus is a person, and I think people can 'meet' Him under extenuating circumstances, such as a twisted gospel. However, I think that the Spirit of Christ would probably lead them out from under the lies, and at that point they would have to be willing to follow the truth rather than the lie.
My brother came forward to receive Jesus at a Mike Warnke sermon. Warnke has since been exposed as a fraud. Did my brother's faith "take?" It certainly did. Jesus is real the Gospel is real and Warnke used them in his pitch to become rich but they were the real facts about Jesus.
_____________________________
If we are actually the truth seekers we like to think we are, then forsaking self will and falling in love with the will of God instead is the only way we become truth finders.
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RE: Unity, unity wherefore art thou? - 7/11/2010 9:23:47 PM
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JohnHale
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Elena1030
quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
OK, now my inquiring mind wants to know. . .
I thought the OP just used the 'wherefore art thou' as a catchy phrase that would be recognizable to all because of O Brother and NOT really for what it meant.
So what is it?
I took it as a spin on "Romeo, Romeo, wherefore art thou Romeo?"
(The question that inspired the thread title, makes more sense when read in the context of her entire monologue at that point.Juliet is lamenting that she and Romeo come from families that constantly feud. She's saying, "Why must you be a Montague and I a Capulet? Besides, we are who we are, no matter what name we have.")
Which leads me back to being Christians... and the unity we have because of Christ. (And that we are His, whether we ascribe to some secondary issue or not.)
Might it be somewhat disruptive to be often pointing out the disunity rather than to focus on what we do have in common?
It's certainly something to ponder.
I would agree... until I looked at the world around us and the post-Christian countries around the globe.
_____________________________
If we are actually the truth seekers we like to think we are, then forsaking self will and falling in love with the will of God instead is the only way we become truth finders.
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RE: Unity, unity wherefore art thou? - 7/11/2010 9:30:12 PM
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JohnHale
Posts: 275
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cposey
I would ask some people to consider this. Unity is not found in basics, principals, core theology or whatever else "higher education" has taught people. It is a plain and simple concept. Unity is found in the bond of the Holy Spirit. Scripture teaches us simply for good reasons.
Any takers as to why?
LOL...
Have you got a week to read my response?
Put simply, human reason however well intentioned is misguided and of the devil.
Matthew 16:17 (NIV)
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.
Matthew 16:23 (NIV)
23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men.”
This is where the thrust behind this passage comes from:
John 8:41-46 (NIV)
41 You are doing the things your own father does.” “We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.
43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.
44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me!
46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me?
_____________________________
If we are actually the truth seekers we like to think we are, then forsaking self will and falling in love with the will of God instead is the only way we become truth finders.
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RE: Unity, unity wherefore art thou? - 7/12/2010 1:06:30 PM
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Elena1030
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnHale
quote:
ORIGINAL: Elena1030
quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
OK, now my inquiring mind wants to know. . .
I thought the OP just used the 'wherefore art thou' as a catchy phrase that would be recognizable to all because of O Brother and NOT really for what it meant.
So what is it?
I took it as a spin on "Romeo, Romeo, wherefore art thou Romeo?"
(The question that inspired the thread title, makes more sense when read in the context of her entire monologue at that point.Juliet is lamenting that she and Romeo come from families that constantly feud. She's saying, "Why must you be a Montague and I a Capulet? Besides, we are who we are, no matter what name we have.")
Which leads me back to being Christians... and the unity we have because of Christ. (And that we are His, whether we ascribe to some secondary issue or not.)
Might it be somewhat disruptive to be often pointing out the disunity rather than to focus on what we do have in common?
It's certainly something to ponder.
I would agree... until I looked at the world around us and the post-Christian countries around the globe.
But... why would we look to "the world" to evaluate how the body of Christ is doing?
I mean, yes, there are still so many who are not yet in the family of God... but why should that make us wring our hands and lament the seeming disunity, rather than making the effort to remind one another of what we do have in common in Christ... and that the need for salvation is still so great out there?
Maybe the issue isn't disunity.... but laziness, apathy, distraction, and other things... maybe it's lukewarm belief... paralysis b/c of unbelief... rather than disunity? (Or am I just talking semantics... and we're really thinking similar things here?)
Or am I just totally dense and missing the point?
I admit that I am soooooo lazy and apathetic tooooo many times as a Christian. Skeery. (But... this thread isn't about my particular journey. I just wanted to let you know that I "get" some things in my head... but don't always live them out. Hmm... I'm a good example of the problem I described above. Go figure.  )
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"I like to stride, not mince." -- Maggie
Prayer thread for singles who desire to marry someday
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RE: Unity, unity wherefore art thou? - 7/12/2010 9:21:40 PM
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JohnHale
Posts: 275
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Elena1030
But... why would we look to "the world" to evaluate how the body of Christ is doing?
Matthew 5:13-16 (KJV)
13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
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If we are actually the truth seekers we like to think we are, then forsaking self will and falling in love with the will of God instead is the only way we become truth finders.
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RE: Unity, unity wherefore art thou? - 7/12/2010 9:39:39 PM
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Elena1030
Posts: 3144
Joined: 6/21/2006
From: Music City, USA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnHale
quote:
ORIGINAL: Elena1030
But... why would we look to "the world" to evaluate how the body of Christ is doing?
Matthew 5:13-16 (KJV)
13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
But... are we to look at the numbers of the unsaved and look at how immorally and ungodly they're living... in order to do a litmus test on how well we're doing in following Christ and carrying out the Great Commission?
I agree with you ---> We are to be salt. We are to be light. But knowing what salt and light look like has to be from looking at Christ, knowing Him by the Word and the Spirit, right? Not by comparing and contrasting us to the world... Or am I totally off base here?
I am far more saddened by the wolves in sheep's clothing that get into the church somehow... By the falling away of those who had claimed Christ... By how watered down sometimes our gospel sharing can be...
Far more than I am frustrated by the fact that some of my friends go to the Methodist church, that I am a Southern Baptist Christian, that some of my family members are Presbyterian, and still others I know go to nondenominational churches. That doesn't bother me at all.
Hmm... JohnHale, I suppose perhaps this is an instance of your being akin to one sort of body part (member of the Body of Christ) and I am another. Not sure which ones we are!
But you may be seeing an issue that I am not... because God has called you to focus on a different aspect of the health of the Body... and God has called me a bit differently? Yes?
We're both needed. We're just seeing different facets of the diamond, so to speak. Yes?
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"I like to stride, not mince." -- Maggie
Prayer thread for singles who desire to marry someday
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RE: Unity, unity wherefore art thou? - 7/13/2010 9:24:15 AM
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Doghouse
Posts: 1458
Joined: 8/25/2007
From: The Buckle of the Bible Belt
Status: offline
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quote:
I make no bones about how Roman Catholicism, for example, has been greatly responsible for getting Christianity way off course... but I do not say that no one knows Jesus or all is unsaved because of the flaws in Protestantism or Roman Catholicism... I believe there are people saved in them despite their flaws so long as they truly believe in the genuine Jesus and not another Jesus (2 Corinthians 11:3-4)...
Please...so much for unity.
I personally and cordially invite you to the Catholic threads, where we would be most interested in your theories regarding your statements in the above post.
quote:
I have stated as much if not in this thread in others on this board that I believe folks in Roman Catholicism and Protestantism have relationships (therefore are saved) with the genuine Jesus despite the errors of the denominations they belong to. I'll even go one further... I believe there are people who came to faith in the true Jesus who did not follow up to insure who he is and were duped by cults. Are they saved? If once saved always saved is true then yes. Are they in error? Yes. And it is up to the Holy Spirit to sort out the mess they are in. And btw the woeful lack of public knowledge of Christian truth is the blame of the Church for being duped into divisive doctrines of man and waging wars over those humanist doctrines rather than spreading the gospel to every creature. So potential believers and even novice believers are swallowed whole by cults who are out there doing the evangelism we ought to be doing.
...and you have a monopoly on the Truth that is not possessed by others here...by what means?
quote:
Put simply, human reason however well intentioned is misguided and of the devil.
...Really...? Human reason created the PC you are generating your posts on, and the Internet by which you put them on this website...
See you in the following threads; I have provided links for your convenience:
• Why do we need a Pope?
• Eucharist...actual Body and Blood?
• The Perpetual Discussion on the Sinless Mary
• Praying to the Saints and Mary
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...since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us rid ourselves of every burden and sin that clings to us and persevere in running the race that lies before us while keeping our eyes fixed on Jesus, the leader and perfecter of faith...
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RE: Unity, unity wherefore art thou? - 7/19/2010 9:48:33 PM
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JohnHale
Posts: 275
Status: offline
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um, by the Bible... the Word of God...
John 17:17 (KJV)
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 (KJV)
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
_____________________________
If we are actually the truth seekers we like to think we are, then forsaking self will and falling in love with the will of God instead is the only way we become truth finders.
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